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Post by fantasychild on Jun 19, 2005 15:38:06 GMT 12
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Post by karanadon on Jun 19, 2005 16:28:00 GMT 12
Yes an excellent idea,
They are starting to get darn expensive these days
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MongrelFish
Scalpel supremo
Bow before the might of Chaos
Posts: 384
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Post by MongrelFish on Jun 20, 2005 15:49:15 GMT 12
Hmmm maybe its pointless but we'll never know unless we try.
GO ON AND SIGN IT!!
Maybe, just maybe, those corporal big-wigs at GW will listen to us...
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 20, 2005 15:53:22 GMT 12
An even better way to get their attention - don't give them any of your $$$
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Post by Aaron on Jun 21, 2005 8:38:15 GMT 12
Im definately not against signing petitions etc but before you complain about the costs think about the latest model releases. The biggest part of model production costs are development (ie the molds). If GW didnt improve and replace its models the price rises would probably be more reasonable but if you've ever looked at a 10yr old white dwarf I think you'll agree the quality has increased dramatically. GW games are so popular because they employ top notch staff to make a high quality product, and top pople demand top price!
Bottom line, I agree with PitYak. If you really dislike the price rises THAT much you will take your $$ elsewhere. There are good alternatives (both figures and games) and there is no point in complaining about the prices if you then turn around and pay the new amount, it just proves GW were justified in the price hike.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 21, 2005 11:14:30 GMT 12
It's a tricky kettle of fish that's for sure. Consider my situation:
1) I'm a 35 year guy with a young family with an above average household income. So I potentially have quite a bit of disposable income...although the reality is a little different (damn mortgages).
2) I've played GW games for years and own quite a lot of their figures already in WHFB, WH40k and Mordheim.
3) I have a young son that in 4-5 years will most likely be interested in playing with GW's figures and possibly gaming with them after that (he already loves getting into my modelling supplies in the garage).
4) I've weathered two price increases so far.
5) I agree with Aaron. GW product is top notch. Particularly their modern plastics. In metals there are certainly some equally good companies ihmo. Eg Rackham.
And yet...
I've pretty much stopped buying Games Workshop figures. I'll happily buy the blister or two to supplement any existing armies I have.
But I no longer consider starting a new GW army because the cost is simply too high now. What are you looking at these days for 2000pts of any GW army? $600? $800? $1000 NZ?
I think GW will find eventually their price hikes will strangle their market and I think they're pretty close to that point right now... remember this is primarily a hobby for kids after all. What kid can afford to spend $55 on a box of plastic figures?
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Post by Aaron on Jun 21, 2005 12:19:35 GMT 12
What kid can afford to spend $55 on a box of plastic figures? Actually the time in my life I had most money to devote to this hobby was later school years when I had a decent part-time job and ALL my income was disposable income. |
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MongrelFish
Scalpel supremo
Bow before the might of Chaos
Posts: 384
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Post by MongrelFish on Jun 21, 2005 13:46:34 GMT 12
Hmmm GW have decided to up their prices yet again, by as much as $5US per box set, meaning around $10 increase for us kiwis. And as far as the comments on playing other systems, that would mean that the figures we've brought and the hours we've spent painting them would all come to nohting, as would the time we've spent learning and playing GW games.
I agree with what you've said, that the biggest cost involved is design, etc, but when it costs $1US to make a figure, then that costs *around* $10US a box, that means they're making $20-30US per box, and when you add that all up thats a lot of $$. Surely with that profit they could allow even the smallest of price drops?
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 21, 2005 14:04:09 GMT 12
Well they've certainly priced me out of the market. And speaking of alternate game systems if you've played 40k and have even a slight curiousity about WII history you definitely should check out Flames of War, made by an NZ company no less! The rules are *very* like 40k...but different enough to keep it interesting. I'm certainly having a blast playing it...despite having lost the last two games  |
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MongrelFish
Scalpel supremo
Bow before the might of Chaos
Posts: 384
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Post by MongrelFish on Jun 21, 2005 17:37:05 GMT 12
I've heard so much about FOW and I've seen a few games played, but it's WAY over my head.. i think i'll take my chances, sign the petition and hope that GW listens to our pleas...
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 21, 2005 23:01:52 GMT 12
Our fledgling two-man gaming outfit is using entirely free rules. Iron brigade for acw and foundry's streetfight for cyberpunk.
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Mykillm
Ambitious Upstart
this time 2 will pass
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Post by Mykillm on Jun 25, 2005 18:33:11 GMT 12
 And I thought it was just the exchange rate  no wonder I can seldom afford new model's ,  Trade me has bin getting my atten lately no wonder there is always mini's for sale . 
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Ed
Ambitious Upstart
Posts: 70
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Post by Ed on Jun 25, 2005 21:32:18 GMT 12
The petition is to put it simply a bullshit idea.
Let's look at some facts here :
GW US, GW UK and GW OZ are all privately listed companies which fall under the banner of GAW, Games Workshop Group who control GWUS/UK/OZ, the black library, the former Citadel miniatures company and every other aspect of GW as we know it.
Because they are seperate companies, GW US/UK/OZ exist as seperate entites. There has been a price rise in the US, this does not mean there will be one in the UK or here. Here the only price rise we are going to see in the future is the hobby section of thr range which is avaliable from other producers, not the models. Please don't go running your mouth until you have found out exactly what is happening.
The price rise in the US is in my mind understandable, it has been a massive venture for GW to go into the US like they have because of the initial cost of the setting up what they have set up. They are balancing this out with a price rise so they can begin to turn a profit from GW US which posted a loss in 2004. This doesn't effect us.
The figure of 10 bucks us per box makes sense, this is to cover the immediate cost of the product. The other 20-30 mostly stay as retained profit or go to paying staff and such. How do we know this ?
GAW (Games Workshop Group) is a publicly listed company on the English stock exchange. As such it is obliged to have a prospectus for prospective shareholders and in the prospectus GW punlished their most recent reports. The interim report for 2005 shows that GAW have had a turnover of 71 Million Pounds down from 72 this time last year and a profit before tax of 7.7 Million.
This downturn as has been rightly mentioned by Tom Kirby, the chairman of GAW's board of directors this is simply due to the levelling of the sales for LotR, 'the bubble has burst'. Now here's something interesting, if GW are the vicious, rapine, greedy little sods you people seem to think they are why did that make an estimated 5.5 % after tax profit. The point is that GW have costs to cover, they don't merely jack up the price as they like.
Another interesting point is c0de's reference to his buying habits. You don't have to be constantly working on armies, it's fine to have armies and get the most out of them. Good on you for getting the most out of your miniatures as opposed to leaving a hodge podge trail of partially done armies littered with hefty receipts. You can't blame GW if you insist on buying more and more stuff, it's your own fault. But trying to boycott GW as PitYak suggested won't work with the majority of you. If GW's profits peel back then you'll suffer, there'll be fewer new models and GW will have less room to expand but they'll still turn a profit. Totally leaving GW games is the only way to avoid that issue, and it sure isn't something I'm prepared to do.
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Ed
Ambitious Upstart
Posts: 70
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Post by Ed on Jun 25, 2005 21:34:58 GMT 12
One last thing, a truely greedy company would retain few of it's profits. The owners of GW, the shareholders, received 1.5 million pounds worth of dividends over all (4.95 pence per share), the rest of that sevenish figure ended up in retained profits being put into the company to benefit us.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 26, 2005 9:20:09 GMT 12
You raise interesting points Ed. If often wonder how much GW sinks into their brick and mortar stores and how their sales figures break down between online and retail sales. Not to mention how many purchases relate to new gamers and how many relate to returning gamers? Actually it's probably pretty easy for GW to figure that one out. Surely new players purchase more core plastic boxes, returning players purchase more metal blisters. I can understand their focus on 'branded stores' but do wonder if they're a little behind the times in this aspect (probably for historical reasons...GW existed before the Internet took off). I suppose the real benefit of branded stores is in capturing new young players to the 'big three' game systems. Speaking for myself I rarely venture into the branded stores these days and I certainly have never gamed in one (despite being in the hobby for around 15 years on and off). Which begs the question of how many players they actually get from 'word of mouth'. Certainly two of my gaming friends were introduced to the game via my various collections. It's interesting to compare their distribution model to a smaller company in a similar market like Battlefront who are responsible for Flames of War. They seem to have quite a popular online store (judging from their forum). However I guess this is just a reflection of their business size rather than a marketing choice. There is however no doubt in my mind that each time GW introduce a price increase, they are definitely shutting out potential new gamers. As a parent I'd love for my toddler son to get involved in the hobby in 5-8 years but I suspect I'll try to introduce him to one of my unpainted armies rather than convince him to start an entirely new force - simply because of the cost! We had a price rise in Asia Pacific in 2003 didn't we? I would be surprised if we see another hike so soon. One thing that does irk me about any price hike we see is there's basically never any rationalisation - they simply increase the prices. I think I'd be less distressed if they said 'we're increasing prices because the cost of distribution is going up/or the GBP is weak etc.'. However the flip side of that is the last time they hiked the Asia Pacific prices they had a massive sale prior to the increase which prompted me to buy and entirely new army. I wonder if price increases have something to do with the focus on 'Skirmish' and 'Kill Team' rules we've been seeing for the last year or so in White Dwarf? Skirmish games are a great 'portal' into the larger game systems because of course they only require a handful of figures (say a single $55 box), introduce you to the rules (so you need the main rulebook) and let you learn the modelling and painting basics. Once you've got a couple of Skirmish armies or Kill Teams painted it's almost a no-brainer to 'graduate' to a full WHFB or 40k force, particularly since you've already invested in the complete ruleset. It was in fact Mordheim that introduced me to WHFB after all. 12 years prior to that I was strictly a 40k gamer. It will be interesting to see what GW will be like in another decade when my son may or may not be bothering me to purchase him army boxes for birthdays/xmases. Perhaps I should start saving now? |
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And I thought it was just the exchange rate 
no wonder I can seldom afford new model's , 
Trade me has bin getting my atten lately no wonder there is always mini's for sale . 