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Post by Aaron on Jun 27, 2005 16:20:23 GMT 12
Varnish I have never done this before & plan to start with my FoW, any help would be good. I understand the whole gloss vs matt debate & am not interested in a gloss finish but if I don’t get any help I’ll probably end up with Purity Seal. What product do people use to varnish
Spray Undercoat I heard somewhere that citadel spray is the goods because it is designed to shrink when it dries whereas standard spray is designed to expand. However no-one (except me) ever seems to use citadel spray. Also I’ve had a problem with my spray basecoat kind of chalking up I think it was to do with the environment I was using (too dusty) but is it likely to be anything else? I haven’t had this problem for awhile. What product do people use to spray undercoat?
Brushes What type/brand of paintbrush do people use? I went out and purchased a couple of brushes during this competition (the most expensive that whitcoulls had ($4 ea) and before the end Id gone back to my old brush which is in better condition (again a citadel). I don’t have a clue what type of bristles it has but it works better and lasts longer.
Washes I’ve heard somewhere its possible to add something to washes to help them stay on flat surfaces and to help them run off but I cant remember which is which. Im sure dish washing liquid was one of them. Does this comment make any sense and if so can anyone tell me what they are.
Paint Also dustand made a comment about liking her paint to be the consistency of cream, I also like to use a thicker paint rather than a thin watery one. Am I doing something wrong? Is the reasonit that watery paint doesn’t hide the detail but the downside being it requires more coats?
Anyway that’s a bunch of questions Ive had a kicking around for awhile and never got around to asking.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 27, 2005 16:40:07 GMT 12
Ahhhh a technical discussion about figure painting! I can't resist . Varnish I use spray matte artist's varnish. These days I've settled on this product I think (although I'll check tonight). Spray Undercoat I've *always* used Citadel 'Skull White' primer for figures. Never had a problem with it. I think you can get 'dusting' if the enivronment is quite cold...I always give the can a very vigorous shake before hand and 'sweep' spray a whole bunch of stuff at once rather than nailing singular figures. I use a 'spray turn spray turn spray turn spray' scheme as well. For terrain I use a flat black enamel 'spray kote' can from Bunnings and really nail the terrain with it to try and seal everything before painting. Brushes Whatever works for you basically. I think GW brushes are over priced and use Hadyn 000 brushes from Whitcoulls for figure painting myself. $5.95 from memory but a good brush will last for ages if treated with respect (ack something I'm not very good at!). Terrain you can't go past cheap brushes from a $2 shop or Warehouse Stationary. Drybrushing terrain destroys any brush you use. Hence the cheap brushes for terrain. Beware of loose bristles though! Washes Possibly you're thinking of 'Clear' floor wax which is available from Pak and Save. I mix 50/50 with water and then put a couple of drops in most ink washes I apply. I think Mr Pityak dilutes it even more which might be a good idea...the ammonia in 'Clear' can attack some ink pigments in my experience . Paint I think people like watery paints because you can do multiple coats with slightly different mixes. This is what I do to some extent on 28mm figures. Although I do prefer a thicker paint myself. Nothing more annoying than having to do three coats of yellow . You can alleviate coverage problems quite a lot by choosing the correct base colours. For example I always paint yellow over a brown/tan base coat. My 2c! Looking forward to the gaming tomorrow night!
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 27, 2005 18:45:32 GMT 12
If I'm varnishing a figure it's generally because it's going to be handled, so I'm not too concerned about the finish, just want a hard coat. Citadel acrylic if it needs to be really hard and gloss isn't a problem, otherwise humbrol matt enamel, but I've still not had much luck getting a matt finish with that. I use the crystal kote matt too, on practically everything, but I'm not convinced it actually has much effect. I always bomb over decals with it just to be safe. Bendy plastic figures get pva coated, and in fact pva isn't bad as a cheap coating for any figures; not too gloss and quite flexible. I'm experimenting with different weird varnishes at the minute, like circuit board laqcuer. Like the varnish, when it comes to undercoat I don't go for model shop brands. With most hobby materials and equipment, I will always try and get the equivalent product elsewher, the logic being it's usually cheaper and better. Paint is a good example. Undercoat (actually primer in this sense) needs a few basic properties, such as adhering to the substrate and providing a good painting surface. Citadel and tamiya and whoever's stuff is fine, and has obviously been selected and refined over the years to suit the job in hand, but I reckon why not go and see the people who really know about paint. So I hit the car shops and try all the auto enamel primers. The name of my favourite escapes me now, but it's just initials, I know that much A good black auto primer will give you a grippy surface that helps alleviate the hassles we were talking about in the other forum. I use a very pale grey when I'm not using black. I have a bit of a mixed approach to brushes. I usually have a couple of decent ones, a 3 and a 2 that I use for laying down base coats and detailing. My painting style is pretty unforgiving on brushes though, so I go through a lot of cheap ones. Those packs of four for about $8 from whitcoulls and places, and das synthetics for about $3 - 4 each. I keep these graded, and will quickly pass them down the grades as they wear. I'll start using for fine work, then as soon the tip goes relegate it maybe to inking, then as things get worse they are used for metallics, scrubbing, stippling dry brushing and what have you. (Actually I usually have "good" metallic brush that doesnt get for anything else). My "decent " brushes aren't necessarily expensive, just ones I've found which do the job. Sable is my favourite, but I'm finding I use more and more synthetics, and they getting a lot better. I always have a few flat brushes, for laying down large areas, doing stright lines and stuff like that. I never have plain water in my studio except for cleaning my brushes. I have a stock solution of klear and water 1:6 and that is used for all my dilutions, whether a couple of drops to some thick paint, or the thinnest ink wash. I've never found a problem with the smell of klear, but then I have no sense of smell. I've used washing liguid too, and windscreen washer fluid, which I think is very good. Good also for adding to pva if you use it to seal your groundwork; makes it "wetter" so it soaks in easier. On the thick paint / thin paint thing, while it's not a subject you can really summarise, I would say I tend to slap it on thick on "toy soldiers" and user thinner paint and inks on display figures. For toy soldier style figures the thick paint helps cover the dark base, and the idea is not to create a realistic looking figure anyway. With display figures I'll go for thinner washes. So if I was painting something like your 15mms, I would go for a dark base coat, and hope to get everything done in two coats max.
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Post by Aaron on Jun 29, 2005 16:41:45 GMT 12
OK, thanks for that a couple more questions.
What is the result of using Klear to dilute washes? why that instead of water?
What is the final effect of the Spray Kote black? specifically the table my gaming table looks not unlike a black board, if I went over it again with spray kote would it have a hardier surface? We used black matt enamel on it but its not quite right.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 29, 2005 17:03:30 GMT 12
The 'Klear' or 'Clear' (stupid Trademark lawyers!) works to reduce the natural surface tension of water. This means if you use it to dilute your inks you'll find you get less of problems with 'pooling' on flat surfaces once the ink is dry. I find it also tends to stay in the cracks and fine detail more.
Another advantage I find with 'Klear' is that it makes for quite a robust ink layer (presumably because it's floor wax) which can easily and safely be painted over once fully dry. I found prior to using 'Clear' that often ink washes would bubble or generally react badly to being over-painted.
The spray kote flat enamel black I'm using would probably give you exactly the same finish on your table. Being enamel it's pretty hardy though. Is your table fading or is the colour rubbing off? I've never noticed? Maybe an enamel interior paint would be more hard wearing?
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Post by dustand on Jun 29, 2005 20:55:56 GMT 12
God I never noticed until just before I read this Just to set the record straight and break the hearts of guys who though hey a chick gamer, I am actually male, I think I must have accidentaly scrolled to female when I was filling out the stuff... Gosh, I feel a bit awkward now anyway Varnish I use nuart picture varnish Matt finish, comes in a 400g can, I have seen it in art stores recently but I am still using a can from about 10 years ago, I havent needed to varnish many figures since I dont realy play enough. 10 years on and it still produces a perfect matt coat, hasnt changed colour on any models and can really dull down patchers that are two shiny Spray Undercoat I also use SprayKote paints, their white undercoat tops skull white for texture and whiteness. for terrain though I usually use the cheapest black I can find, I paint most of my terrain with cheap poster paints so I am not to fussed about the coat consistancy, so ling as it goes into the cracks and gaps it will do. buy satin finish only if matt isnt available in you area Brushes my last set of brushes came from ikes emporium in browns bay (auckland) cost me less than a cup of coffe and has outlasted citidals brushes by nearly a year. it is important to note that I paint with brushes that GW would have recomended I threw out when I brought then, I never buy synthetic brushes, the fall apart in about a day when I use them, I like the brushes from whitcouls but I found they got more ruined alot faster. I almost exclusively use 0 brushes on models and big art brushes for terrain. Washes I heard that distilled water also works, I think the idea is the less inperfections in the substance the better, try using boiled water from the jug, or buy a bottle of distiled water... couple dollars to try it and if its no good its still a tasty snack Paint I get mad with watery paint cause I just dont see that much of a difference in 3 coats of watery paint to one carefully applied coat of thicker paint. When and if I ever paint something for someone else I will usually water the paints a little bit moreand maybe do 2 coats but only if they are likely to ask if I did... BTW that wasnt a plug, I dont paint figures for cash anymore. I dont mind losing interest on my figures and putting them away until I can be bothered but customers, they can be pretty demanding I got a noob question to, I brough some Fuller max bond construction adhesive to build my board with, an I was thinking of spreading a thin layer over the top to stick my ballast on with, I have only used it for gibing walls (which sounds like blowing them up but its quite the reverse the question is though, how much weight will the glue add? Long time ago I used to cover things in plaster of paris, but its not durable enough and it weights a ton. Thats all
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 29, 2005 22:40:52 GMT 12
HHHHAHAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 29, 2005 22:45:34 GMT 12
On a more serious note tho, I like the sound of that varnish, is nuart the brand?
And i don't imagine your glue will add that much too cause a problem
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Post by dustand on Jun 29, 2005 23:11:31 GMT 12
I believe nuart is the brand but it was (is) made by atsco australia pty. ltd
its ozone friendly (hydrocarbon propellant has been made since 1975 and has a smiley face at the bottom of the can, its a terracotta and white can the bigest words are
picture varnish matt
nuart is near the to of the can red inside a black 'a'
it can be used on acrylic or oil paints and as per the instructions 2 coats work best.
I have sprayed it on litchen without worries.
if it goes on to thick it can take the flufflynesst out of flock (not so good) but thats the same with anything really
I know I seen it recently in auckland, I dont often go into art stores but when I do I reckonize the can almost imediately.
you should NEVER inhale varnish, we all know in this hobby its almost unavoidable. However this one smells a lot nicer than most spray cans I have used.
the price tickets gone and inflation may have changed things but I think I got it for about $14
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Post by dustand on Jun 29, 2005 23:28:16 GMT 12
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jun 30, 2005 6:49:47 GMT 12
cheers for that
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jun 30, 2005 8:48:12 GMT 12
I used to use Nuartt's matte art varnish until I found that Helmar's matt art varnish does almost the same job and is almost half the price . Mind you I was buying Nuartt's from Whitcoulls and Helmars from Warehouse Stationary...so maybe that's the difference. Nuartt's seems to be slightly more 'matte' than Helmar's, particularly when you spray it onto the figure so thickly it's dripping off .
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Post by Aaron on Jun 30, 2005 9:24:44 GMT 12
I must have accidentaly scrolled to female when I was filling out the stuff... Gosh, I feel a bit awkward now Oh god thats funny. Does it disturb you that after this many messages people hadn't clicked? altho I must admit after your last post about RPG computer games I was thinking "oh my god this chick thinks just like a guy?!" Ah well, that means I still dont know of any females that actually play war games... Ok well thats useful info. I'll definately try out those suggestions. Sounds like Im not too far off the mark with most things but a bit of tweaking might make all the difference! I dunno about the glue adding much weight but any reason why you've chosen not to go with the traditional PVA? Yet another question. when people are mixing paint etc what do you use to get the quantities right? ie 1:3 one what to 3 whats? obviously I can use almost anything but what gives a useful amount of paint? an eye dropper?
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Post by dustand on Jun 30, 2005 9:49:31 GMT 12
I mix by the tried and true near enough is good enough. 3:1 for my is 3 dips of the brush or 3 wiped dips of the brush, if you must measure do so into and into a empty clear pot, use water and a measuring cup, mark the levels on the pot. That way you dont waste paint up and down the sides of a measuring cup, which also remains safe for dispensing cough syrup.
Wargaming women are like mermaids or unicorns or something, possably mythical but we all know someone whos brother says they seen one.
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Post by dustand on Jun 30, 2005 16:15:42 GMT 12
Also I decided to go with builders glues cause PVA isnt so good on large flat surfaces, it will dry near the outside but never on the middle, it forms a bond faster. builders glue can bridge gaps up to 9mm , its a bit more like putty so you can spread it and to an extent shape it, get rid of the perfectly flat look, it will flow up around the cat litter rubble, increasing durability, Its cheaper than pva and at the end of it you get a nice cardboard tube to make terrain with... Oh and since its a fawn brown colour I wonly need to mottle it with a few other shades of brown to get a good dirt/mud look.
Its not as orthodox as PVA and its the first time I have taken this option, I just thought a change would be nice.
Does anyone know a good site for earthquake fault line pictures, I want to check the way the earth tears open and lifts.
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