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Post by dustand on Jul 19, 2005 19:03:09 GMT 12
Here is how it is, resin is expensive and I am poor. Clear Silicon is cheap but i cant remember anyone saying anything about it being any good for water.
I saw a bostic one thats more gel like and PROBABLY wont flow over detail, it comes in a cauking tube. About $9 a tube. For $28 Sealys had a litre tin of simlilar but more fluid stuff.
Has anyone tried these as water ?
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 20, 2005 8:40:18 GMT 12
You're talking about the caulking stuff like Selley's 'All Clear'...that you use on windows, roofs etc. From my house maintennance experiences I reckon you'll have a couple of problems:
1) The caulking gun tube stuff is a really thick and sticky gel that dries rather quickly. I imagine it'll be almost impossible to model with or texture. Although it cleans up in turps so you might be able to thin it...of course that means the turps would probably attack your paint work underneath!
2) I'm not sure how 'clear' it really dries...
The tin sounds interesting...although for $28 I reckon you'd be better off buying a small tin of polyurethane high gloss floor varnish and try working that up into a water effect.
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jul 20, 2005 11:11:31 GMT 12
You should try and find some old modelling books form the 70's, they have lot's of techniques that have died out since newer materials came along. you might have trouble working out what some of the products referred to actually are, but you do get some interesting ideas to start you thinking. I read one recently that was simulating water with things like clear plastic sprue.
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Post by dustand on Jul 20, 2005 20:59:55 GMT 12
Hey guess what, I finally remembered to ask my Dad where he got his resin for fishing lures. The company is called Nuplex www.nuplexcomposites.co.nz/they are Auckland local, at 32-38 Patiki Rd in Avondale. Here is the part that is CRAZY Dad buys 20 litre buckets of the stuff... it costs him about $236. Hes pretty sure the sell litre bottles over the counter, and if the price is roughly in scale that would make a litre about $13 - $15. That sounds cheap enough. but I dont know if thats a trade only price... If so I should be able to get some through Dad. I will call tomorrow and find out more, they are in the white pages but here is the number 09 820 1250 I didnt ask what one he buys, but it sets clear and hard enough to turn on a lathe, I wonder if the place he get his moulding rubber has good prices too... I wonder if this will rid us of the drought that leaves us with 4mm deep ponds? =] |
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Post by dustand on Jul 20, 2005 21:00:48 GMT 12
Isnt it funny how its on pitiki street and this board is pityak... thats kinda similar  |
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 21, 2005 8:37:35 GMT 12
Holy carp! That sounds bloody fantastic....if I could get a litre of resin for $19 I'd be creating oceans of water effects!
Definitely keep us posted Dustan because I'm about a fortnight away from having two of those Mordheim canal tiles painted up and ready for a water effect!
I might have to just wander around on Friday and give them a visit!
Tell me more about the work your Dad does with this stuff? Is he embedding items in clear resin to make lures? How transparent does the resin look? Any yellowing etc?
Specifically I assume he's using one of their 'Polyplex' products... presumably Polyplex 3008 or Polyplex 3089 judging from their site. Those are clear casting resins used for 'encapsulating artifacts' and 'creating tourist soveneirs' respectively.
Once again I salute Phil of Pityak for creating a NZ local modelling board! It's been invaluable swapping suppliers and tips with other NZers!
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 21, 2005 10:35:56 GMT 12
Just spoke to Peter from Nuplex on the phone. They sell to the public, and 1 litre of Polyplex 3008 or Polyplex 3089 clear casting encapsulating resin retails for around $28 including hardener. So it's not that much cheaper alas. But is certainly not too bad. That's $12 cheaper than I can get a litre from Spotlight and I suspect the Nuplex resin will be higher quality. Dustan you might be able to get a discount if your dad has an account. I've also asked for their MDS (material data sheets) on Polyplex 3008 and 3089 which I'll sling up on my www.tabletop-terrain.com blog if anybody is interested? |
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Post by dustand on Jul 21, 2005 10:42:27 GMT 12
Dad started making lures over 10 maybe 15 years ago, he used to make flies for fly fishing, but he prefered fishing of the boat. A Lure is used when traulling (sp?) (cruising along towing lines instead of letting them sink) for fish, it is intended to look a little fishlike and grab the attention of the fish. The anatomy of a lure is quite simple, a plug made of lead or resin, this is covered in holographic reflecty paper, certain colours and patterns work better, glue on a pair of googly eyes and then encapsulate it in resin. There is a hole running through the center for you line to run. Dad hand turns all his lures on a lathe but the inital resin outsides are made from a white pourable silicon rubber. They are kind of bullet shaped, so one part molds. The resin head is then fitted with a variety of rubber skirts, these are brought from a shop called Gourok which is on the same street as nuplex incidentally. My Dad has been doing this a long time, he produces them to sell, and makes more than enough to fund his fishing (Mum fishes too, and I dont eat ANY seafood.... Odd). 'GD Lures' have been fished over a large part of the world, and have landed some enormous prize winning fish. The years he has put into them and spent working out what works has made them one of the best and most sought after. I dont do fishing so I dont know how much advertising is done, but he basically has a trade deal, you should be able to see the lures and buy them at Gourok. Thats my Dads lures. The resin sets water clear, he uses citidal paints to airbrush over the holopaper and tints it with tamia clear colours (enamels) (guess whos paint supplies got raided when he was just a young lad There is no yellowing that I have EVER seen, however lures get lost, lines break and sometiimes fish bite them clean in half (BIG fish) so I cant say I have ever seen a REALLY old one. how long does it take before it starts yellowing, is it something that happens as it dries or an age thing? Yeah, I am looking to put the water effects on my board in about 2 weeks as well, maybe we can make a day or night of it ? |
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 21, 2005 11:03:14 GMT 12
Cool! I'm not a fisher either but I admire anybody that can create a successful cottage industry. Very interesting that your Dad uses Citadel and Tamiya paints too  . Looking at the MDS I'm pretty sure your Dad must be using Polyplex 3089 which is recommended for 'chip free drilling' and presumably lathes well too. However the MDS seems to suggest it's only poured in up to 250ml batches and 'gels' in 17 to 50 minutes depending on the % of hardener used. I reckon it's probably not quite what we want for water effects then. Polyplex 3008 however sounds like a goer though! With it's reduced shrinkage the MDS reckons you can do up to a THREE LITRE pour in a single application - which sounds a little ambitious! I have nightmare images of pouring 3 litres of expensive resin only to discover your cat has been sleeping in the terrain the night before or something . The 3008 'gel' time is also a lot longer...from 20 to 100 minutes depending on % of hardener. That would give you plenty of time to work out bubbles and maybe apply some ripplingwater effects once it does start to gel. Shelf life is only 4 months though so you'd probably want to purchase the resin once you'd got everything prepared for the pour and then just go for it. I'm definitely going to have to visit Nuplex in the near future and pick up a tin I suspect. Maybe once I've detailed up the Mordheim tiles. I might also create another simple terrain piece for a 'test pour' before pouring anything over the finished MH tiles. |
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 21, 2005 11:07:04 GMT 12
Oh and apparently both Polyplex products have a 'very light blue tint' to them...which is kinda appropriate for water eh?
I wonder does your Dad know anything about tinting this stuff? Can he recommend any paints or colours that are suitable for tinting resin? Enamel maybe? Or oil paints?
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Post by dustand on Jul 21, 2005 13:51:19 GMT 12
Dad uses 2 types of paints in conjuction with his lures, he airbrushes with watered citidel paints (which is great news for us) however I guess I am going to find out what happens to poster paints. and for tinting he uses tamia enamels. Tamia make a range of translucent paints, black is called smoke but i dont know any others by name though they have AT LEAST all the primary colours (time to bust out the colour wheel and mixing charts again I assume that there are other products that can be used and I would hazzard a guess that if the clean-up solvent is the same on both products they should be compatable (there is some law of soluability... but I dont know how it works exactly). the good thing is that it takes only tiny amount of colour to actually tint it. also dont forget to factor in the darkness of the riverbed in this case, the darker the submerged area the more tint you will need to beable to see the colour, the lighter it is the less tint you will need. its an experiment that I havent tried yet, but will soon. I know from memory though that dad never used much (I was a kid who loved the why game, most cause I really wanted to know why =]) |
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jul 21, 2005 13:58:07 GMT 12
Once again I salute Phil of Pityak for creating a NZ local modelling board! It's been invaluable swapping suppliers and tips with other NZers! I live to give! |
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jul 21, 2005 14:00:38 GMT 12
If you want clear paints that's another area where magic Klear comes to the fore; use it neat as a medium, tint with acrylics, and you have a good (and cheap) approximation to tamiya's clears.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jul 21, 2005 16:15:42 GMT 12
Mmmm I'd be a bit wary of mixing Klear floor wax with polyurethane resin or varnish because of the ammonia content...I wonder if it would cloud the resin at all?
What bears the pigment in enamel paints? Some horrid solvent yeah? I know you can thin enamel paints with turps...you can also thin polyurethane floor varnish with turps... I assume polyurethane resin products also contain a similar solvent (although you wouldn't want to thin them)...so I'm certainly going to try tinting the resin I currently own with enamels at some point!
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jul 21, 2005 18:21:05 GMT 12
No no, I didn't mean for tinting resin, I meant for making your own "smoke" and colours like that.
You do get thinners and thickeners for polyurethane resin too.
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