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Post by c0d3monk33 on Apr 20, 2005 16:32:03 GMT 12
Greetings, I've assembled a basic 3' x 1' Mordheim canal from Hirst Arts fieldstone pieces, progress pics on www.tabletop-terrain.comI'm just wondering if anybody here can give me any pointers regarding creating a fairly flat river or canal like water effect. I have some two part clear resin (from Spotlight) but am actually thinking of using a couple of layers of varnish over a simple blended 'greenish' paint job. Any water effect experts here? Which would work best for a fairly flat slow moving river effect? And would you bother doing any texturing at all before painting the water? I also wondering what people think about detailing the canal walls. I definitely want some rubbish like 'submerged' (ie. truncated) barrels and crates and sundry bits of trash. But am wondering if I should build up some small 'banks' at the canal sides with DAS and textured paint. That would give me somewhere to stash more rubbish like ruined, leaking skiffs etc. The question then is what's the best way to handle the banks running down to the water if I just want to use a flat varnish ... heck is that even possible or will I need a good 4-5mm or poured resin to merge the bank edge with the water effect... Yes...this is my first attempt at a water effect  |
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Post by PitYak Studios on Apr 20, 2005 16:44:20 GMT 12
I'm far from an expert, but I've always had plenty luck just using varnish or even PVA
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Pirate Wench
Scalpel supremo
my favourite finger paint is strawberry flavour
Posts: 353
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Post by Pirate Wench on Apr 21, 2005 13:57:54 GMT 12
I'd add green/brown sluge moss weeds up the sides just above the waterline. Take a look at photos of real canals, (maybe a serach for barge holidsys will get you lots of returns) build up of silt and stuff tends to occur on outside bends it might look odd on a straight canal. People always seem to notice when something is not quite right even if they can't tell what it is, they still notice. Maybe parts of the canal wall pushed over and fallen into the water as rubble which would catch other debris that was moving through would work. and against the pillars of bridges is another place where debris might gather.. just be sure it is on the upstream side and that you are consistent with placing debris on the upstream side of any obstacles like rubble and stuff
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Pirate Wench
Scalpel supremo
my favourite finger paint is strawberry flavour
Posts: 353
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Post by Pirate Wench on Apr 21, 2005 14:05:17 GMT 12
another thing, people would have wannted ways to get down to the water so there'd be stone steps lleading down to small wooden jettys and walkways at water level. these would provice good debris catches. I think steps tend to lead down to under bridges. This was probably part of making construction easier too in providing easy access to the foundation levels
And rusty iron rings where you'd tie boats and rafts up to, you could have some old rope (try hemp twine) hanging from some of these
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Apr 21, 2005 14:06:39 GMT 12
Thanks for the tips! You do raise some good points...I'm torn between making a full (of water) canal or trying to produce a kind of 'dry river bed' sort of effect. But a full canal is probably easier and will look more realistic as you mention. I definitely intend to add as much rubbish, flotsam and jetsam etc. as possible. The usual submerged crates, barrels, belly up fish and sinking dingies are sure to make an appearance. I also intend to add various mooring posts and wooden jetties against the walls and into the canal to some extent. The bridge sections are completely removeable while the pontoons are fixed. It's a cheap way of creating a couple of different setups and making the painting easier. I'm also considering creating a London bridge style water-wheel under one of the pontoons...at least that's the plan  . |
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Apr 21, 2005 14:10:36 GMT 12
Heh, more good suggestions! There's three 1'x1' tiles in the set. The central tile is currently mostly occupied by a bridge. But the other two tiles both have stairways down to the water level built into one canal wall. Damn, but not under the bridge! Ah well I just mentioned mooring posts above...but I do intend to create a couple of 'mooring ring' details I can cast in resin and stick all over the walls and wooden mooring posts. I've just got to buy some more RTV and resin first... |
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Post by PitYak Studios on Apr 21, 2005 14:43:50 GMT 12
.. just be sure it is on the upstream side and that you are consistent with placing debris on the upstream side Canals don't have upstream sides  |
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Pirate Wench
Scalpel supremo
my favourite finger paint is strawberry flavour
Posts: 353
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Post by Pirate Wench on Apr 21, 2005 14:46:50 GMT 12
they do so!. all canals flow, meh. otherwise they'd be called long skinny lakes
silly poms, just because they come from the upside down part of the world they think canals don't flow
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Post by PitYak Studios on Apr 21, 2005 14:56:11 GMT 12
Think about it; where does a canal flow from and to?
Canals don't flow at all, they are at a gradient of exactly zero, with no source or mouth. Water is moved through them in both directions by locks.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Apr 21, 2005 15:08:41 GMT 12
If you're a Mordheim gamer (you are hopefully? tis a fine game  you know that the City of the Damned is built on the river Stir in the Warhammer world. So I imagined the canal is fed off the river...so no locks, or maybe just one at the end...an not much flow either...although I do plan to build a removeable wall the can act as a frame for a bunch of sewer piping etc. |
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Pirate Wench
Scalpel supremo
my favourite finger paint is strawberry flavour
Posts: 353
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Post by Pirate Wench on Apr 21, 2005 20:46:13 GMT 12
water is moved through them, it might change direction but it is still a flow!, and any floating debris would be moved with the flow and end up on the upstream side of obstacles.. it may well be that when the locks open and teh flow reverses back again the floating garbage would move back until it caught on something else.. kind of like a tidal estuary. but still has a flow! nyah! (arguing for the sake of being pedantic)
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Mykillm
Ambitious Upstart
this time 2 will pass
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Post by Mykillm on Jul 10, 2005 18:50:04 GMT 12
 ;D You tell the pom Pirate W. ! where does all the rain water go ? may B 1/1000 to 1/2000 gradent but most canal's go down hill to a lock and then they only have to pump silt from the lock 
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Post by dustand on Jul 10, 2005 20:38:27 GMT 12
My two cents is, DEFINATELY build up the bed of the canal, it doesnt have to be much, sloppy silt from buildes glue or das, rocks, rubbish, like bukets, branches rings of concrete (or equivilant) loose bricks pulled out by who ever, make it a slight V shape and have a couple darker coloured layers of resin, then do the tinting a little lighter than you might of. the darker the bottom layers the deeper it will look, but light enough to see the refuse.
Also is the canal 100% man made like a storm drain or is it mostly harnessed natural formation? it it is man made go have a look in the nearest storm drains, I spent 4 weeks with a weed eater cleaning them out, it all catches on one side, start the catchment with a few brancheson the obsticle and then layer it up with things that look like flax a bit before throwing in the rubbish.
If it is enhanced natural water course, go look at some streams under bridges on the outskirts of denser areas. I live next to one such stream in albany, silty, rocks and branches, rubish and all... it looks fantastic.
I am in the always a flow school as far as the water movement and unless there are lock walls there its not going to be stagnent or still, also even a still bond has ripples waves and minor tidal effects... also hydrothermic preasures from the temperature variation... Pick a side and go with it... sadly that will limit the strict modularity of the canal as the rubbish cant gather in both directions unless they are converging into a T section. one way around this would be to make drop in lock walls or dead ends, then it wouldnt look so odd having the flow look reversed.
Another Idea if you want to increase the visual spacial depth is to use smaller bricks for the part thats just under the water, that way with the refraction looking into resin the bricks will look a little larger and more to scale (in theory) though haveing seen the pics of the canals its a work intensive, untested idea on a piece that even without the water effect looks positively breath taking. (Cant wait to see the water go in though)
Thats all I got to say bout that
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Post by PitYak Studios on Jul 11, 2005 7:53:32 GMT 12
Maybe so, but the point was you won't have a build up of rubbish on an "upstream side" - there isn't one. I've lived on canals, you don't generally get a build up of rubbish at one side of a feature and not the other.
Remember too that a lot of what are called canals are actually altered natural waterways, and they most definately will have a flow. A true man made canal won't.
But anyway, I'm no expert on waterways, so I'm going to stop pretending I am.
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Post by c0d3monk33 on Jan 16, 2006 8:54:16 GMT 12
I'm still slugging away at the Mordheim modular table I've been building for around 2 years now. I've finally made some considerable progress on the canal section. Here's a couple of shots:   As always comments are welcome and more details (including progress shots) can be found by searching my blog for 'canal' or just looking in the Mordheim category. It's taken me a while to get to this point but our games of Mordheim are vastly improved by having a fully textured table and a set of painted buildings. I just wish all my figures were painted now . |
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you know that the City of the Damned is built on the river Stir in the Warhammer world. 
;D 